I picked up the book shortly after I read this column, but just got around to reading it in the last couple of days. I thought it was highly entertaining, and will admit that sometimes pop culture crit Chuck is a little too much for me. I noted the book when you mentioned it only because I am also a North Dakotan, and there's not many of us, and I have to support when we are out there creating something. Part of the reason that I follow Mike as well (even though these guys are from questionable places like not-even Grand Forks and Wyndmere).
"Downtown Owl" bar scenes filmed in the great Spot Bar in St. Paul. I also read the book (audio version). There was a little news coverage when the filming was taking place in St. Paul. That's what got the movie on my radar.
I think there’s something to the idea that social media allows those with clout within a subculture to police views and herd opinions in a particular direction.
In theory social media should make it possible to think creatively and test new ideas out but in practice it can be very hard to swim against the tide when people are immediately in your mentions to tell you why you’re wrong. It causes people to self edit to an extreme extent and you can end up in situations where people are afraid to say something that is out of favor within their community even when they instinctively know it has some merit. This creates situations where opinion within a subgroup is wildly out of step with the mainstream. Think for example about how slow some lefty urbanist subgroups have been to grapple with the effect of crime on the quality of life in the city, or how over the top the Ricky Rubio valuation was among Minnesota Timberwolves fans back in the day.
I don’t believe online discourse is real discourse. You’re just arguing with a bunch of random strangers, the vast majority you will never have a face to face encounter with. Your opinion is like shouting into the void.
You can have definitely have moments where you can connect positively with people (watching live TV events - sports, etc.), but politics, cultural stuff, I don’t think there’s any chance of rational discourse with “the other side” online. So my opinion is to just not do it. Not worth your energy and time.
I’m lucky that I have very close friends in real life who happen to have different political opinions than me. When we talk about this stuff, it comes from a place of wanting to understand the other person’s position. Because we’re friends! Sure, it sometimes gets passionate, but I’ve had a much better time talking about this stuff face to face even when I may “lose” the argument.
Thanks for the thoughtful replies and insights! Yeah, not being able to edit comments is frustrating (about the only thing I don't like about an otherwise very smooth user experience)
"Why can't I say it if it's true" seems commonsensical, as long as a person considers the feelings of others, when those feelings should be considered. Indeed, we live in a society, which means that facts matter, but so do people's humanity. However, why can't I state facts--Trump is a convicted felon; a traitor who attempted to violently overthrow our democracy; a cheater who tried to get the Secretary of State of Georgia to help him cheat by manufacturing votes that didn't exist; a liar who consistently stated things like "the 2020 election was stolen and the Democrats cheat," even though the more than 50 court cases brought by Trump dismissed those cases due to lack of proof; etc.; and that people who voted for Trump are not intelligent due to their lack of recognition of those facts that make him unfit to serve as President for the United States? Because such a true statement might hurt the feelings of those people? When facts are too important to ignore or discount, such eye-closing will result in major individual and societal problems, not only for the blind but for the people with open eyes.
I picked up the book shortly after I read this column, but just got around to reading it in the last couple of days. I thought it was highly entertaining, and will admit that sometimes pop culture crit Chuck is a little too much for me. I noted the book when you mentioned it only because I am also a North Dakotan, and there's not many of us, and I have to support when we are out there creating something. Part of the reason that I follow Mike as well (even though these guys are from questionable places like not-even Grand Forks and Wyndmere).
"Downtown Owl" bar scenes filmed in the great Spot Bar in St. Paul. I also read the book (audio version). There was a little news coverage when the filming was taking place in St. Paul. That's what got the movie on my radar.
I think there’s something to the idea that social media allows those with clout within a subculture to police views and herd opinions in a particular direction.
In theory social media should make it possible to think creatively and test new ideas out but in practice it can be very hard to swim against the tide when people are immediately in your mentions to tell you why you’re wrong. It causes people to self edit to an extreme extent and you can end up in situations where people are afraid to say something that is out of favor within their community even when they instinctively know it has some merit. This creates situations where opinion within a subgroup is wildly out of step with the mainstream. Think for example about how slow some lefty urbanist subgroups have been to grapple with the effect of crime on the quality of life in the city, or how over the top the Ricky Rubio valuation was among Minnesota Timberwolves fans back in the day.
I don’t believe online discourse is real discourse. You’re just arguing with a bunch of random strangers, the vast majority you will never have a face to face encounter with. Your opinion is like shouting into the void.
You can have definitely have moments where you can connect positively with people (watching live TV events - sports, etc.), but politics, cultural stuff, I don’t think there’s any chance of rational discourse with “the other side” online. So my opinion is to just not do it. Not worth your energy and time.
I’m lucky that I have very close friends in real life who happen to have different political opinions than me. When we talk about this stuff, it comes from a place of wanting to understand the other person’s position. Because we’re friends! Sure, it sometimes gets passionate, but I’ve had a much better time talking about this stuff face to face even when I may “lose” the argument.
I liked this lives. Thanks for writing it!
I meant piece not lives. Why can’t I edit my comment on this app?
Thanks for the thoughtful replies and insights! Yeah, not being able to edit comments is frustrating (about the only thing I don't like about an otherwise very smooth user experience)
"Why can't I say it if it's true" seems commonsensical, as long as a person considers the feelings of others, when those feelings should be considered. Indeed, we live in a society, which means that facts matter, but so do people's humanity. However, why can't I state facts--Trump is a convicted felon; a traitor who attempted to violently overthrow our democracy; a cheater who tried to get the Secretary of State of Georgia to help him cheat by manufacturing votes that didn't exist; a liar who consistently stated things like "the 2020 election was stolen and the Democrats cheat," even though the more than 50 court cases brought by Trump dismissed those cases due to lack of proof; etc.; and that people who voted for Trump are not intelligent due to their lack of recognition of those facts that make him unfit to serve as President for the United States? Because such a true statement might hurt the feelings of those people? When facts are too important to ignore or discount, such eye-closing will result in major individual and societal problems, not only for the blind but for the people with open eyes.